Defining “Within a Stand Width” of Buildings in Crossfire

Some musing on the definition of “Within a Stand Width” in the context of buildings in Crossfire. See also Defining “Within a Stand Width”.

I’ve been playing a few Crossfire games in heavily built up areas – the most recent being Carabanchel. As a result of these games I’ve come to believe there is a gap in the rules regarding “base width” in the context of buildings. I’ll explore a few situations to highlight the gap and what I think the rules actually say and in some cases how we play it. I’ll also include a response from John Moher who has a different slant on this to mine.

Situation 1: Close Assault from outside

I’ve included this situation, and its variants, because it covers much that is clear from the rules. In contrast to latter situations.

This situation has the Red player – with a Platoon Commander (R) and a Squad (R1) – attempting to close combat a Blue platoon in a couple of adjacent building sectors. The specific target of the close assault is a building sector with a sole blue stand (11) that happens to be a SMG squad. In the adjacent building sector is the blue Platoon Commander (1) and another Squad (12).

Situation 1: Close assault from outside
a) SMG defender; b) contact; c) Aborted Close Assault

It all starts as R1 attempts to reach the wall. What we know is that:

  • Situation 1a: Being a SMG stand, squad 11 can conduct reactive fire with 4d6 when the attacking stand (R1) gets to within 1/4″ of the wall.
  • Situation 1b: R1 is in contact, hence can close combat, when it reaches the wall. When the close combat is resolved then the red Platoon Commander (R) can assist the assaulting stand (R1).
  • Situation 1c: If any other stand is suppressed before the close combat is resolved then R1 is pushed back one stand width.

But there is a question here:

  • In Situation 1b, if the close combat is resolved. can the blue Platoon Commander (1) assist the defending stand (11) from the neighbouring building sector? Given “all and only those [defending] Squads occupying the Structure are involved in the combat” (CF8.4 Structures: Buildings and Hardpoints, p. 15) the defending PC probably can’t help from next door. Interestingly this restriction doesn’t apply to attackers.

John Moher responded to say

No. The rules are clear about sectors – if you can’t shoot between them then you clearly can’t claim the 1-base width thing. REMEMBER when you claim the 1-base width thing the base must actually MOVE into contact – in this case it clearly can’t because it’s leaving 1 sector and joining another.

My response to John

Really? Where does it say you can’t shoot between sectors? The only restriction I’m aware of is that you can’t reactive fire at a stand moving between sectors within a building complex. Reactive fire at a stand moving form the open into a building complex is ok. Direct fire into a building sector inside building complex is ok, from inside the building complex or from outside. Direct fire and reactive fire into a building sector that is not part of a building complex is also ok.

And there is nothing in the rules that says adjacent building sectors must form a building complex. Assume, for my various situations, that there are no building complexes. Just adjacent building sectors.

Are you talking about the attacker or defender needing to move. Certainly this isn’t true for the attacking PC. He doesn’t have to actually contact the structure – just be within 1 stand width of a squad in contact. I already gave the reason why I think the defender’s PC can’t help – although this creates a logical inconsistency.

Situation 2: Close assaulting HMG

The next situation has a Red Squad (R2) close assaulting a Blue HMG (MG) in a building sector. In the adjacent building sector is a Blue Squad (21).

Situation 2: Close assaulting HMG

Same question here:

  • In Situation 2, can the blue squad (21) assist the defending HMG stand (MG) from the neighbouring building sector? Given “all and only those [defending] Squads occupying the Structure are involved in the combat” (CF8.4 Structures: Buildings and Hardpoints, p. 15) the rifle squad probably can’t help from next door.

John Moher responded to say

No – exact same reason as above.

Situation 3: PC outside building – Rally and Group Move

Situation 3 has a Blue platoon in and around a two sector building. The Platoon Commander (3) is outside the building. Two Blue Squads (32 and 33) are in one building sector and the final Blue Squad (31) is in an adjacent building sector.

Situation 3: PC outside building – Rally and Group Move

The question here is:

  • In Situation 3, can the Platoon Commander (3), who is outside the building, rally any of the sub-ordinate squads that are inside the building? If you apply the literal stand width then the answer is no. But I don’t think a literal interpretation makes sense given for shooting all stands are considered in the centre of the building sector and close contact is at the wall. We have habitually allowed commanders to sneak next to a building, without entering the building, to rally the occupants. So we would have allowed PC 3 to rally squads 32 and 33 in the immediately adjacent building sector but not to rally squad 31 next door.
  • In Situation 3, if the blue player elects to group move with stand 32 as the group leader, which other stands can move as part of the group? I’d say the stand (33) in the same building sector is a safe bet. But what about the PC (3) outside, or the stand (31) in the neighbouring building sector?

John Moher responded to say

No. Same again. Building Sectors are an abstraction so once inside it’s a bit like Dr Who’s Tardis – you aren’t in the same space/ground scale relationship as those outside – you are either in or out.

Only 32 & 33 can move together. This is pretty clear from the rules and unquestionably Arty’s intent. If you were allowed to hoover up the PC and squad in the adjacent sector it would undermine the whole way sectors work and make urban combat far too easy…

My response to John

Yup, there is a tardis thing going on. But answer me this – if a close assaulting attacker just has to touch the wall to count as in contact, why isn’t that sufficient for a friendly PC trying to rally the occupants?

Put another way, what you’re saying is that: For an enemy contact means touching the walls For a friendly this isn’t true and you have to be inside the building sector to count as within one stand width (i.e. be closer to be further away).

Seems like double standards. 🙂

Situation 4: PC inside building – Rally and Group Move

The next one is similar to situation 3. But in this case the PC is inside one of the building sectors and one of the squads is outside.

Situation 4: PC inside building – Rally and Group Move

Same sort of questions:

  • In Situation 4, can the Platoon Commander (4) rally any of the sub-ordinate squads? The sub-ordinate stand in the same building sector seems a safe bet, but what about the stand (41) in the building sector next door, or the stand (43) immediately outside the building?
  • In Situation 4, if the blue player elects to group move with stand 42 as the group leader, which other stands can move as part of the group? I’d say the PC (4) in the same building sector is a safe bet. But what about the other two stands (41, 43)?

John Moher responded to say

Only 41 – none of the others – again he’s in the Sector so that’s it – he has no influence outside it.

Same as your other example above – only the PC can group move with him. The others are in a different sector or outside so by definition can’t be within 1-base-width and part of the group. You could group move the PC & 42 immediately outside, then Group Move a second time adding on 43 from there of course…

My response to John

You keep mentioning an obligation to MOVE to be able assist subordinate stands. I’m not aware of any such rule.

The commander assistance thing is covered by this rule, which doesn’t mention moving, – CF2.3 Commanders (p.2)

“When assisting a subordinate Squad in Close Combat, Rallying, or crossing Barbed Wire, a Commander must be within 1 stand width (1-1/4″ say) to his Squads; just ‘eyeball’ the distance.”

Situation 5: Close Assault in building but PC outside

The final situation has a Blue platoon assaulting inside a two sector building. The twist is that the Blue Platoon Commander (5) is outside the building and the attacking squads (51, 52) are inside, along with the target Red squad (R5).

Situation 5: Close Assault in building but PC outside

The question here is:

  • In Situation 5, can the blue Platoon Commander (5), who is outside the building, assist the two sub-ordinate squads (51, 52) as they close assault the red squad in the neighbouring building sector? In the same way as rallying we’ve allowed this.

John Moher responded to say

No – he shouldn’t – if he’s not in the sector he can’t help them – AGAIN he must MOVE to be with squads, not just be within 1 base width, and moving would clearly not be possible as it requires entering the sector. He must be in the sector to participate.

If you look carefully (I don’t have my book handy) – there is a passage on the 1-base-width thing which talks specially about combats and says of they are within 1-base-width they may JOIN (or MOVE) to assist the combat – not just wave their arms around form 1-base-width away… Only Rallying & Group Moves don’t require the stands to nominally move into contact.

Allowing someone outside to influence events inside a town sector is IMO counter-intuitive to what the rules say, and would not be what Arty intended…

It’s certainly a novel set of situations – FWIW I don’t think I’ve ever consciously considered any of those as possible actions in a game; and/or ever experienced them in Kieran & my games? I think the intent and the wording is relatively clear on this – the 1-base-width thin only applies to any and all outside a sector – as I said a Sector is the Doctor’s Tardis – if you are in it you aren’t anywhere else, including being within 1 BW of anyone outside…

My response to John

I believe any assistance, as per CF2.3, just means one stand width and waving of arms. 🙂 Close combat included.

Accepting the one-stand width and waving arms bit then why does it matter if there is a wall in between. It wouldn’t, for example, matter if there was a LOS blocking hedge in between.

You once commented to me that my scenarios have a lot a buildings. I guess yours don’t. 🙂

My real point is that the one base width rule doesn’t mention building sectors at all. Everything from that point is supposition. And the rules upon which the supposition is based are ambiguous.

re Tardis: Except enemy trying to close combat you (see above).

Crossfire References

These are the various rules that seem relevant.

CF2.3 Commanders (p.2)

“When assisting a subordinate Squad in Close Combat,
Rallying, or crossing Barbed Wire, a Commander must be within 1 stand width
(1-1/4″ say) to his Squads; just ‘eyeball’ the distance.”

CF4.4.1 Buildings (Structures), Subsection Building Direct Fire (p. 6)

“All occupants fire out of a Building using the Building’s
center point as the firing point. Squads using Direct Fire shoot at a
specific occupying Squad and target the Building’s center point.”

CF6.8 Submachineguns (SMGs) (p. 12)

“If attacked in Close Combat, a SMG Squad rolls 4 Dice
normally when firing upon the attacking Squad at ‘point blank’ range, i.e.
just short of contact (1/4″).” 

CF8.1 Pins, Suppressions and Initiative Rolls (p. 14)

“If an attacking Squad enters Close Combat, and a subsequent
attacking Squad is Suppressed, any attacking Squads currently in Close
Combat are backed-off 1-stand width.”

CF8.2 Close Combat Involvement (p. 14)

“A Commander within 1 stand distance of a subordinate attacking Squad may be included at the attacking player’s option.”

“A Commander or FO within 1 Stand of a subordinate Target Squad may be included at the defending player’s option”.

CF8.4 Structures: Buildings and Hardpoints (p. 15)

“All and only those Squads occupying the Structure are involved in the combat. Each attacking Squad that contacts the Structure is involved; Squads attacking a Structure from the open must contact the Structure directly from any side.”

“Attacking Commanders within 1 stand of an involved Squad may assist as per above.”

Leave a Reply