I’ve always felt the 12 element army size of DBA doesn’t give balanced games. Some folks have come up with points systems to deal with this. I thought I’d tally the points total for a few armies to see how they compare under a couple of the points systems. I’ve focussed on the Macedonian and Punic Wars and not too surprisingly the Ancient Spanish are the poor relatives.
The two point systems I looked at are:
- DBA 2.0 Points System By Philip Woutat
- Rating Elements and Armies in De Bellis Antiquitatis By David Lawrence
Philip’s system is simpler than David’s. David does quite a granular analysis of the different troop types to come up with his element value. He also adds in a factor for the Troop Type of the General – not too interesting for the period I looked at – and the Aggression of the army – seen as a negative presumarly because the defender sets up the terrain. Despite these differences the two systems give very similar results, relatively speaking. If fact you you divide David’s score by 3 you get, roughly, Philip’s score.
The the Macedonian and Punic Wars armies I looked at were:
- DBA II/19c Seleucid
- DBA II/33 Polybian Roman
- Revised Polybian Roman
- DBA II/32 Later Carthaginian
- DBA II/39 Ancient Spanish
- Revised Ancient Spanish
The DBA II/19c Seleucid army list scores the top in both point systems and DBA II/39 Ancient Spanish scores lowest. You have to add three elements of Scutarii (AX) to the Spanish to get close to a “balanced” game against the Seleucids.
Philip Woutat | |||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Troop Type | Points | DBA II/19c Seleucid |
DBA II/33 Polybian Roman |
Revised Polybian Roman |
DBA II/32 Later Carthaginian |
Revised Ancient Spanish |
DBA II/39 Ancient Spanish |
Elephants | 14 | 1 | |||||
Knights & Heavy Chariots | 11 | 2 | |||||
War Wagons | 10 | ||||||
Cavalry, Light Chariots, & Scythed Chariots (Expendables) | 9 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
Camelry & Blades | 8 | 6 | 7 | ||||
Light Horse if they are given QK vs. Sp & Pk | 8 | 2 | 1 | ||||
Light Horse if they are not given QK vs. Sp & Pk | 7 | ||||||
Spear & Artillery | 7 | 2 | 1 | 3 | |||
Pike, Warband, & Auxilia | 6 | 5 | 4 | 7 | 6 | ||
Bows | 5 | ||||||
Psiloi | 4 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 4 |
Hordes | 3 | ||||||
Camp Followers | 2 | ||||||
Elements | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12 | |
Points | 92 | 88 | 84 | 83 | 72 | 69 | |
David Lawrence | |||||||
Troop Type | Points | DBA II/19c Seleucid |
DBA II/33 Polybian Roman |
Revised Polybian Roman |
DBA II/32 Later Carthaginian |
Revised Ancient Spanish |
DBA II/39 Ancient Spanish |
Aggression | -2 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 |
Group 1: General with any of these: | 4 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
Elephants (EL) | 36 | 1 | |||||
Knights (Kn) | 31 | 2 | |||||
Cavalry (Cv) | 25 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
Blades (Bd) | 23 | 6 | 7 | ||||
Spears (Sp) | 22 | 2 | 1 | 3 | |||
War Wagons (WWg) | 22 | ||||||
Group 2: General with any of these: | 2 | ||||||
Camelry (Cm) | 22 | ||||||
Light Horse (LH) | 21 | 2 | 1 | ||||
Bows (Bw) | 21 | ||||||
Scythed Chariots (SCh) | 21 | 1 | |||||
Pikes (Pk) | 20 | 4 | |||||
Warband (Wb) | 19 | 1 | 3 | 1 | |||
Group 3: General with any of these: | 0 | ||||||
Auxilia (Ax) | 18 | 1 | 6 | 6 | |||
Psiloi (Ps) | 13 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 4 |
Artillery (Art) | 10 | ||||||
Hordes (Hd) | 8 | ||||||
Elements | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12 | |
Points | 269 | 254 | 243 | 244 | 220 | 210 | |
Ratio David / Philip | 2.9 | 2.9 | 2.9 | 2.9 | 3.1 | 3.0 |
Oh no! I have just ordered Celtiberians from Corvus Belli! I have been assured that they are not so rubbish under DBA 3.0 – but until the rules come out we will never know…
The Celtiberian option is stronger because of the warband. Anyway the figures will be great so don’t worry. 🙂